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flatlanderep Member 
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I'm in the middle of installing the pertronix distributor in my 74 JH. Everything is at TDC, the old one is out and I've positioned the new one in place with the rotor arm in the same direction as the original. It doesn't want to seem to go all the way in though. There is about 1/4" of the shaft exposed (note picture). Is that how its supposed to be or is it just that the clamp sucks? Also, do I need to transfer over the vaccuum canister from the old dist. to this one? Or is it not even necessary with the pertronix? Thanks guys, Paul Attachment: pertronix.jpg (Downloaded 96 times) |
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Judson Manning Member 
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Notice the distributor is protruding just about the exact height of the drive dog? You just don't have it lined-up properly in the shaft. Remove the cap, and while pushing the distributor into the accessory housing, rotate the rotor until the dog engages into the shaft. The dog is slightly offset, so it only goes in one way, and my guess is that you have it 180^ out of rotation. The fun part is getting the cap back on and remembering to keep the retaining clips accessible. BTW there is precisely zero chance the new distributor will line up with your old one. Plan on rotating the engine by hand a number of times and mixing plug wire locations to get the correct firing order. Above all, take your time (no pun intended). |
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flatlanderep Member
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So once its installed timing is going to be way off? |
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Jensen Healey Super Moderator 
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It will be way off. Do a static timing before you try to start the engine. Kurt |
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flatlanderep Member
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Jensen Healey wrote: It will be way off. Do a static timing before you try to start the engine. This may be a totally ignorant question, but I'm new to all this. What is the exact procedure for this? |
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Judson Manning Member
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You really need to remove the timing belt, but if you are not comfortable doing that, it is possible (but difficult, time consuming, and rather annoying) to recover static timing by another method. Your first limitation will be fitting the distributor under the manifold. There is not a lot of room under there so do what you can to fit it such that you can rotate the distributor body as much as possible. Next you have to identify which terminal on the distributor cap best lines up with the rotor (i.e. #1 plug wire). Once you attach the plug wires to the cap (1-3-4-2), oh, and BTW you WILL install them backward at least once! then you can take a reading to see just how far off you are. I suggest you get another set of cheap plugs, install them to the wires and lay them on the intake manifold where you can see them. Label 1-4. When you rotate the engine by hand you can see (and hear) each plug fire. Note the timing when 1 & 3 fire, 2 & 4 will be 180^ out of rotation (that is IF you installed the plugs to the rotor correctly!). Now comes the fun part...you have to rotate the distributor and possibly reset the plug wires on the cap in order to get static timing for 1 & 3 to approximately 10^ BTDC. This will be a very frustrating and time consuming process as you iterate to a solution. Each time you move the distributor, you have to rotate the engine several times to check and re-check the timing, your knuckles will NOT be happy. At the end of the day, there may simply not be enough room under the manifold to rotate the distributor enough to make it all line-up. Then you're back to removing the timing belt. Again, take your time and you'll do just fine. |
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flatlanderep Member
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Thanks Judson for all the help! The distributor is out and I'm trying to get the new one in. Like you said my knuckles won't like it. And they definately don't. I have the new pertronix aligned perfectly (or so it would seem). I have it going in just like the old one, it snaps in, but then there's that freaking 1/4" that still remains outside. I'm stumped. Any tips for actually getting this thing to get in there perfectly? Out of ideas. Thanks, Paul |
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flatlanderep Member
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After a few more hours of fruitless effort and frustration I still have yet to get the new distributor in. It's quite unbelievable. So I decided to examine both the old and the new closely. And they look like they could be different enough to cause me the troulbe of not being able to get it in that last .25 inch. I attached a few pictures to illustrate the problem here. Is it a manufacturer defect, machined wrong, or am I just an idiot? Please helP! Attachment: compare.jpg (Downloaded 69 times) Last edited on 04-22-2007 09:02 pm by flatlanderep |
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flatlanderep Member
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A picture showing the gap that just wont' go in..... Attachment: dist-gap.jpg (Downloaded 355 times) |
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flatlanderep Member
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And some random spring that fell out of the hole that the distributor goes in..... what is this? Attachment: spring.jpg (Downloaded 351 times) |
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Judson Manning Member
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The spring fits into the auxillary shaft. Another tip, remove the distributor clamp from the housing and install (loosely) on the distributor prior to re-assembly. It tends to deform easlily and is probably is out-of-round just enough that it's blocking that last bit of distributor from going in. |
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Greg Fletcher Administrator 
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The distributor install can be a real annoyance and is indeed is one of the "black arts" on the Jensen Healey. I know it must seem incredible, but I think you still have the drive dog in the wrong spot. You need the cap off, apply slight presure to the housing sideways and VERY slowly rotate the rotor. I'd keep the clamp only slightly snug on the uppermost shaft and not attached to the oil pump housing at all right now. Just get it in place and worry about adjustment later. As you turn the rotor, sooner or later, you'll feel the drive dog hit home and the entire assembly with go into place. Rotate the clamp to line up with the stud on the housing and tighten up everything enough to keep it in place. Now you can worry about how it should be adjusted. The first time I did this it took me hours also, I thought I was going crazy. I came back the next day and tried again and it went right in- seemed bizarre at the time, but there's nothing like experinece to save the day. Once you've done it a few times and have "the touch" you'll have no problems. Keep in mind this new distributor is just that, new, the drive dog will not have the wear that your old unit has and it's going to be an even more of a precise fit. |
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flatlanderep Member
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Thanks Greg for the insight. I guess its the same experience we have going on here because I'm on the verge of crazy. But I'm going to try again tonight and I'll keep everyone posted! |
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Judson Manning Member
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It only took me about 10 years to get it figured out myself! I think Madame Currie said an 'expert' is someone who has made EVERY possible mistake possible in a very narrow field. |
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flatlanderep Member
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Alright fellas, with your advice I was able to get the pertronix in that last 1/4"! Got the cap on after some struggle and am now in the process of the whole setting the plugs on the manifold, turning the engine, watching them fire, etc. And man are they firing wierd. Some runs it will go as intended 1342. Then next rotation only one or two will fire and then none will fire. I checked all the connections making sure they were tight and all is well. What would cause some to completely not fire in the rotation? I also might add that after fitting the distributor in I noticed a slight play within the rotor arm. Now, it wasn't spinning freely, but I'd say about 1/4" play back and forth. Could this cause the random no spark? |
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Judson Manning Member
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The 'play' is the tension caused by the mechanical advance springs - it's doing what it's supposed to do. With regard to some of the plugs not firing: verify good connections, but more critical is that you must maintain a constant rotational speed at evey firing point (i.e. TDC & BDC). Unlike the mechanical 'switch' of standard points, the magnetic reluctor is speed sensitive and downright unreliable if you rotate too slowly. Again, unlike points, it is almost impossible to 'sneak-up' on that exact firing point when using a magnetic p/u. Watch the crank, listen to the spark, and do your best to get it close to 10^BTDC. In lieu of getting it dialed-in perfectly with a timing light and CO meter, make adjustments for good idle, the road test and re-adjust till you are happy with it. |
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flatlanderep Member
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Got everything put back together after the inevitable time consuming process. Plug 1 and 3 firing perfectly at 10 BTDC. But the engine won't crank......argh. Adjust the dist. body ever so slightly advance/retard/advance/etc....still nothing. Then I realized that the 3+ hours I was putting the key in the ignition to check the spark order, that the fuel pump was running. Could this have caused the engine to flood with fuel, causing it not to start? I mean, the engine rotates, but doesn't start. It coughs once or twice and thats it. |
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Jensen Healey Super Moderator
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Insulting post deleted Last edited on 04-25-2007 05:01 am by Jensen Healey |
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flatlanderep Member
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Last edited on 04-26-2007 11:46 pm by flatlanderep |
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flatlanderep Member
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Last edited on 04-26-2007 11:47 pm by flatlanderep |
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Jensen Healey Super Moderator
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I couldn't spell trailer. Sorry about your frustration. It could be any number of things. My first thought was weak spark but I thought that would be insulting considering you already spent a bundle on the Pertronix distributor which is supposed to take care of that area. I'm sure you'll get it with a bit of persistance. Last edited on 04-25-2007 04:58 am by Jensen Healey |
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flatlanderep Member
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Yeah sorry man, didn't mean to get all pissed....I'm just frustrated with this whole project. But I gotta keep going. I'll keep everyone posted. Thanks again. |
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John Kimbrough Member
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I understand your frustration. When I put in my Pertronix ignitor and coil, I felt the same way. You might want to take a look at my web site which chronicles my installation. It may give you some clues. One thing I had to do is increase the spark plug gap in order to get a good spark, and to get all cylinders firing, but I had put in a high tension coil at the same time. John. http://home.comcast.net/~jrkengr2/ |
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flatlanderep Member
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Thanks John, your website is awesome....full of info. While I was sligtly rotating the dist., i noticed drips of gas......obviously coming from the carbs. Is this a result of the endless cycle of turn ignition on, crank engine by hand, watch spark? Or is this a bad seal? I know I'm drifting out of the ignition section and into the carbs realm, but eh. I don't want that freakin' gas to start a nice little fire on the starter ya know? |
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Greg Fletcher Administrator
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The o-ring on the bottom Stromberg float bowls fail on a regular basis, it's a lame design. New ones are cheap. Of course cranking the engine can cause flooding too at the valve seats. I'd fix that pronto. |
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edward_davis Member 
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Paul, If your float valves are working properly and you're only getting the 2-3psi at the carbs, you shouldn't have a weeping/flooding problem. I had a sticking needle valve that caused that problem, but the car would still start ('course, I was troubleshooting carbs and not ignition, so I didn't flood it the way you could've). I think, though, that if you've got the choke on (actually it's a fuel enrichment valve, not a true choke), you could have created this problem without having anything wrong with the carburettor. I'm assuming here that you have Strombergs. If you've replaced the fuel pump (or even, if the PO replaced it), you should check the line pressure at the carbs. I've had two of the "low pressure" Facet pumps that supposedly max out at 3psi, and I had to install a pressure regulator to calm both of them down. Killed the first one with what the Facet rep called a 'typical uncontrolled voltage spike, expected in an antique car.' So I bought the cheaper (but externally identical) generic knock-off as a replacement. Anywhooo, these pumps and others solid state pumps, while more 'reliable' than the old points-type fuel pump can easily blast open the poor little needle valves in these carbs and flood the engine. I think that's all I can contribute to the fuel-side of this problem. I'm interested to hear about the pertronix distributor, though. I'm thinking of getting one of the mechanical-advance only dizzies that I saw when I visited Delta in January. As soon as I can get my wife to forget about that new starter motor.... Also, I understand that the vacuum-advance pertronix dizzies have an actual vacuum-advance instead of the vacuum-retard capsule I have blocked off on my old, stock unit. I'll be interested to hear how that works for mileage and power. Good luck with your JH, and let us know what finally fixes it. I've avoided a lot of new posts to the board by finding out the resolution to others' problems. If it's not a Jensen it's just another car... Edward |
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Judson Manning Member
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If I read you post correctly, 3 is firing at 10^ BTDC? Firing order is: 1 & 4 at 10^ BTDC 3 & 2 at 10^ BBDC 1-3-4-2 . . . |
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flatlanderep Member
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Well its running........................................................................rough. Sounds like one cylinder is missing. But the good thing is the engine actually runs, never thought I'd hear it again. Just thought I'd let ya know. |
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flatlanderep Member
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about the cylinder not firing (cyl 2).........when I remove the plug it appears very fouled, wet and such. is there too much gas in the cylinder from the whole ignition timing process (while the fuel pump was on?) |
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James Sohl Member
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To track down rough running, you will need to eliminate variables. Dry the plugs. 'Best would be to have all four in as nearly the same condition as possible. With dry plugs, move on to spark. Check to see, as best as you can anyway, whether the spark is nearly the same strength at the plug end of each plug wire. If you find a weak spark, try swapping wires and see if the weak spark follows the wire or stays in place. If a weak spark stays in place, well, all sparks originate from the same source so something between the coil and plug wire is suspect, like cap problems. Good luck! |
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flatlanderep Member
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Judson Manning wrote: If I read you post correctly, 3 is firing at 10^ BTDC? Short answer.......umm yes. It was all messed up, that's what happens when you work on something into the late hours of the night and you're jacked on energy drinks. But anyway, started it up the first time (well...attempted to start it up), didn't turn over, sounded terrible.......I knew something was wrong. Sure enough the wires were in the wrong order. Would this damage anything? Attempting to crank the car several times with the engine completely out of order......i'm guess the first time around the firing order ended up being 1432...... Engine obviously never started up, but I'm worried that through my several attempts at starting it in the wrong order that I messed something up. Someone please take away my worries. FYI, the engine is running now (IN THE CORRECT ORDER), but I"m working with the spark plug gaps in order to get it smooth. |
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Judson Manning Member
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The short answer is NO you probably haven't screwed anything up, aside from too much gas washing the oil off the rings and some really fouled plugs. All it's going to take is for you to get it running well and up to temperature. Go ahead and change the oil if you haven't lately. Now...see how much fun something SIMPLE like changing out a distributor can be! |
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flatlanderep Member
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Judson Manning wrote: The short answer is NO you probably haven't screwed anything up, aside from too much gas washing the oil off the rings and some really fouled plugs. All it's going to take is for you to get it running well and up to temperature. Go ahead and change the oil if you haven't lately. Ha, yeah thanks! If it wasn't for your guys' help, I'd be putting the old distributor back in and walking away for a long time. And Judson - the NEW plugs I just put in are already quite fouled up (oily, wet, whatever). Sucks, but oh well. S |
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edward_davis Member
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Paul, I did the exact same thing when I put my dizzy back in after installing new points. "Crank, crank ... pfft pfft" Hmm, why's it popping back into the intake manifold. Turns out the firing order isn't like on my ol' VW Beetle.... 1-4-3-2.... No permenant damage, though; hard to do when just cranking her over. You should be able to clean those plugs with some degreaser or WD40 and an old toothbrush. I used to use an emory board to clean up the ends of the plugs on my VW, then regap them and use them again. Same with the points. Those are cheap cars to maintain. If you don't have any systemic problems with your JH, the plugs should be clean after a few good pulls onto the interstate, anyway. Edward |
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flatlanderep Member
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OK, back to it tonight. Had a neighbor who is mechanically very good with cars come over and assist with the timing. After getting it timed with a timing light, it is still running rough, sort of like running on less than 4 cylinders. It barely holds idle speed and when I press the gas to make sure it will continue to idle and rev it up, it consistently back fires at rpms less than 1000, i.e., drop the revs down to <1000 and rev to 1500 or so and it will back fire as it starts to rev up to 1000. I purchased new wires from Delta and have installed new plugs. All plug wires are connected and same with coil to distrib. Plugs are gapped at 0.030. Seems like I am almost there but I know that does not count. Something still not right. Anything else to try??? |
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Mark Rosenbaum Member 
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Didn't see a mention of coil type in any of the posts so I'll presume you are using a standard coil with the ballast resistor still in place. With a standard coil, the plug gaps should be 0.025" not 0.030". This may contribute to your rough running. Was the engine still running rough once it warmed up? Did you remember to disengage the 'choke' once the engine was running fairly well? Have you checked the compression and verified that each cylinder is about the same, and ideally 120 psi or so? Have you verified that you have no vacuum leaks anywhere? When the timing was set, did you disconnect and plug the vacuum line to the distributor? Have you tried setting the timing for best idle, then seeing what the timing light indicates? Indicated timing will be 10° off with an old crank pulley on a new engine, or vice versa. Are the distributor cap and rotor in new or near-new condition? |
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flatlanderep Member
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UPDATE: JUST GOT DONE SETTING PLUGS AT .025, NOT ANY BETTER. SO I DID .035....same deal....backfires. I might also note the plugs are glazed - carbon deposits. I SET IT FOR BEST IDLE, still runs like crap.........BEST IDLE IS @ TDC, 1000 rpm is @ 10 BTDC, 1600 rpm is at 16 BTDC and 2500 is around 18 BTDC. (aren't these close to the manual specs or am I reading something wrong?) Engine runs rough once warm, choke disengaged, compression good, no vaccuum leaks....etc. So now, round 84. I'm going to lay the plugs on the manifold again and make sure they are firing in the right order. Thats the only thing left I can think of to do. Besides retuning the carbs, but they were fine before the new dizzy. So hmmmmmm. This might be the neverending post. How do you guys feel about that? Ha. - Paul Mark Rosenbaum wrote: Didn't see a mention of coil type in any of the posts so I'll presume you are using a standard coil with the ballast resistor still in place. With a standard coil, the plug gaps should be 0.025" not 0.030". This may contribute to your rough running. Last edited on 04-27-2007 07:08 pm by flatlanderep |
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flatlanderep Member
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just to verify, here's the location of all the plugs, rotor arm hitting right at sp wire 1 Attachment: JH-SP-positions.jpg (Downloaded 68 times) |
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flatlanderep Member
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condition of spark plugs when pulled.....nasty Attachment: spk.jpg (Downloaded 162 times) |
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flatlanderep Member
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and finally.......the position of the wires on the block Attachment: sp-positions.jpg (Downloaded 163 times) |
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flatlanderep Member
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I'm stumped right now...................thats all I gotta say. |
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Jensen Healey Super Moderator
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How well did your car run before you started this process? Have you double checked the cam timing marks line up when at TDC? Remove the distributor cap and look inside with a bright light. If there are any marks on the inside that look like pencil dots or small fern like shapes you have tracking which lets most of your spark go to ground. It's very hard to see carbon on black so look carefully. Kurt |
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flatlanderep Member
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Car ran smooth before all this. I've checked a million times with the cams lining up at TDC. And they do. What would the solution to tracking be? I'll check it out. |
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Mark Rosenbaum Member
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Firing order is 1-3-4-2. The rotor moves COUNTER-clockwise (CCW) when viewing from dist. cap end of the distributor. Your first photo, if correctly annotated, indicates that you've got the distributor wired incorrectly.
Note that the proper position for the #1 plug turret depends on the orientation of the distributor gear at the front of the engine -- if that gear is oriented differently, the #1 plug turret will be in a location other than 6:00. The precise orientation does not matter provided the timing is set correctly and the plugs are hooked up in the proper order. Last edited on 04-27-2007 10:55 pm by Mark Rosenbaum |
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John Kimbrough Member
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Mark, thanks for persisting with your advice. When I saw the distributor cap and wiring I thought something was wrong and was going to go to the garage to check my connections. Then I realized my JH was in Vancouver, Washington in storage, and I am still in Delaware. Not able to help from here. Just wanted to let you know we all appreciate your unfailing advice on perplexing issues. John. |
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Mark Rosenbaum Member
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Thanks, John, you're very kind. I've made it one of my missions in life to ensure the spread of good accurate information about the JH, and thanks to Greg Fletcher and the JHPS membership, and the fine folks on the Jensen Mail List, I've been able to do that rather efficiently. Of course, I am wrong occasionally -- some might say, rather frequently -- but I hope and expect to be corrected whenever that occurs. |
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flatlanderep Member
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John, You saved my sanity. Needless to say the car is running great after switching 2 and 3. THat never crossed my mind. I appreciate all the help! Thanks, Paul |
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John Finch Member
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Paul, congratulations and enjoy the ride! JHPS is a great organization. I know my JH sure runs better thanks to the fine folks sharing their knowledge and experience. |
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