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| Fuel Injection KIt for 907 | Rating: 
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| Posted: 04-24-2011 10:24 pm |
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81st Post |
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subwoofer Member
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There are at least two different input shaft lengths for the T9 box, I think the V6 input shaft is on the order of 3/4" longer than the I4 inputs shaft. I don't know how far we are off. -- Joachim
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| Posted: 04-24-2011 10:27 pm |
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82nd Post |
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subwoofer Member
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StevenD57 wrote:BTW, what ever happened to all of the people at the start of this thread who were so eager to discuss EFI on the JH? There were at least 6 - 8 people initially discussing the merits and problems with doing this and then as soon as I started making progress they all seem to have evaporated except for Joachim and superk83 (sorry I don't know your actual first name). What's up with that? That's the internet for ya... I admit progress is sometimes slow on my part (Ms. Jensen is not my only car project, let alone project as such), but at least I think I head in the right direction. :-) -- Joachim
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| Posted: 05-25-2011 01:22 am |
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83rd Post |
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StevenD57 Member 
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Just in case there is some interest here is a list of the approximate parts needed to do the EFI conversion on a Lotus 907 engine as fitted to a Jensen-Healey. I am looking into making a small batch of the altered Zenith-Stromberg intake manifolds that would include the fuel injector bungs welded into the manifold, the adapter plates for the pair of Nissan throttle bodies, the Nissan throttle bodies, the Nissan throttle position sensor, and possibly the fuel rail. For just the fuel injection setup then the following major parts would be required: high pressure fuel pump, either in tank or external in-tank: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220789062949 $50.00 external: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120727302910 $50.00 if external pump then external swirl pot or surge tank needed http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370490077702 $60.00 Dodge Neon fuel injectors Bosch 0-280-155-782 or Dodge 04669772 (21.3lb/hr flow rating) approx $30 - $60 used per set of four on ebay Fuel injector pigtails http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/fuel-injector-pigtails-bosch-ev6-p-133.html $9.50 each (quant 4 req) Saab 900 2.0L 16V 86-90 fuel pressure regulator Bosch 0-280-160-256 (43psi or 3bar regulated pressure) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390300662326 $49.95 GM air intake and coolant temp sensors and wiring pigtails used sensors and new pigtails: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320703397873 $27.50 Megasquirt 1 EFI ECU http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirti-programmable-efi-system-pcb30-assembled-unit-p-56.html $346.00 DIYAutoTune charges $50 to mod the ECU for EDIS so it will work out of the box. I would also suggest a $28 mod they do to support a pulse-width modulated idle control valve. Otherwise adding the mods to support these is fairly simple. Megasquirt wiring harness http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/1239-megasquirt-wiring-harness-ms1-ms2-ms3-ready-p-43.html $69.00 Now if the EDIS crank-fired ignition were done at the same time and I would strongly advise this then the crank sensor bracket & toothed wheel adapter would be needed as well as the following EDIS parts: EDIS 4 coil, vr sensor, module, and wiring pigtails http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110691598063 $49.95 The only major Ford EDIS part that is not correct in the above auction is the toothed wheel. The above auction includes the wrong toothed wheel. The one I am using is off of a Ford Taurus 3.0L V6 (NOT the DOHC Duratech motor). This does not mean the toothed wheel in the auction could never work but just would not work perfectly with the bracket & adapter I designed. Last edited on 06-08-2011 01:21 am by StevenD57 |
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| Posted: 06-19-2011 09:47 pm |
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84th Post |
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Ramp Member
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Don't mean to hijack but wondering why its not relatively easy to use the EFI and/or Turbo system(s) off an Esprit - aren't they the same 907's ?
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| Posted: 06-19-2011 10:10 pm |
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85th Post |
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subwoofer Member
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EFI: yes, that could be done, but most of those are 20 or more years old already for NA cars - with all the consequences that entails as far as reliability goes. If you want to go that route, I would definitely recommend getting fresh components. Turbo? Good luck fitting one. The Esprit turbo sits just above the bellhousing, you can hardly get you hand between the bellhousing and the firewall on the JH and ask anyone who has tried taking the exhaust header off how much space there is in that area of the car (or volume if you are a nitpicker :-) ). I guess you could fit an Eaton blower if you really wanted to, but I think you will be breaking new ground - with all the associated cost. -- Joachim Last edited on 06-19-2011 10:11 pm by subwoofer |
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| Posted: 06-19-2011 10:20 pm |
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86th Post |
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StevenD57 Member
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Ramp wrote: Don't mean to hijack but wondering why its not relatively easy to use the EFI and/or Turbo system(s) off an Esprit - aren't they the same 907's ?I can think of tons of reasons. Here are a few off of the top of my head. The 907 motor was first released in 1972 - 1973 and was made through approximately 1980 when Lotus first released the 2.2L motors. During that 1972 thru 1980 time frame there were lots of running changes made to even the 2.0L 907 motors like cams, compression ratios, and port size / shape alterations. Then with the turbo 910 2.2L motors the number of changes really went through the roof. The fuel injected motors were first released with the 1986 - 1987 HCI motors and was built around the Bosch mechanical CIS type of fuel injection. In 1989 they first went to fully electronic fuel injection based around GM Delco bits. Both the Bosch CIS and the Delco EFI systems are closed black box systems that are not really able to be re-tuned by an individual. They were developed for the 2.2L 910 motor that had 10 - 15 years of development beyond the 2.0L 907 motors used in the Jensen-Healey. Both the Bosch CIS and Delco systems were really complex systems with lots off add-on vacuum and emissions bits. These were limited production cars and as a result the parts are fairly rare and when available the parts are REALLY expensive. I could probably think of lots more reasons with more time but I think these are enough. Last edited on 06-19-2011 10:21 pm by StevenD57 |
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| Posted: 06-20-2011 01:27 am |
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87th Post |
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Ramp Member
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Just asking . . . - appreciate the info -that's actually what I was looking for. If you read the question correctly, the assumption I made was it's "not" easy - otherwise everyone wouldn't be going through the Rube Goldberg process of bits from each bin. But I did want to know "why" it wasn't a good route - i.e., there had to be reasons not to use Lotus systems. -- another aside, I'm glade there are people on this forum with good technical knowledge. I don't really care if the stereo works or what speakers they used - as some forums. Last edited on 06-20-2011 01:29 am by Ramp |
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| Posted: 06-20-2011 06:22 am |
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88th Post |
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JodyKerr Member 
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Ramp, One other item we're working with here is cost. I have priced the original lotus EFI systems, and they are extremely pricey. Jody
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| Posted: 06-23-2011 10:13 pm |
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89th Post |
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subwoofer Member
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Guys! Guys! Look what I found! http://dynaformance.com/index.php These guys are making IDA48-lookalike throttle bodies with integrated (and hidden) injectors! I really can't remember if the DCOE and the IDA share mounting flange bolt patterns, but if they do our (at least my) prayers are answered. Stealth installation indeed possible! -- Joachim
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| Posted: 06-24-2011 11:58 am |
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90th Post |
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subwoofer Member
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So close, yet so far away... IDA and DCOE do not have the same interface, DCOE and IDF does. The IDA barrels are roughly 30mm farther apart. -- Joachim
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| Posted: 06-24-2011 01:28 pm |
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91st Post |
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Ramp Member
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Did you speak with them about developing something for the JH's ?
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| Posted: 06-24-2011 01:35 pm |
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92nd Post |
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subwoofer Member
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I sent them an email yesterday, we'll see what happens. -- Joachim
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| Posted: 08-10-2011 02:51 am |
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93rd Post |
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Jensenman Member
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As one of the 'interested guys who disappeared', let's just say things have been busy. ;-/ But the EFI project is definitely in the top two or three of my upcoming time killers. thanks for all the pics of the injector bung install, that answers several questions for me. Also, about the fuel rail clearance: there is 'D' shaped aluminum extrusion available which can be machined for the top of the injectors to slip into, that could probably save you 1" of hood clearance.
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| Posted: 08-20-2011 05:02 pm |
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94th Post |
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StevenD57 Member
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It turns out I did not have a clearance problem with the fuel rail. Once I got it on the car I discovered that there was an inch or two above that point on the fuel rail I was worried about when I took the photos over at Dave's old pace. I have ordered and received the D shaped rail in 18inch pieces for Jody's and my second car build. The price for the rail and four injector bungs was very reasonable.
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| Posted: 11-02-2011 10:16 pm |
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95th Post |
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t4brew Member
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Jenvey has a set of DCOE throttle bodies: http://www.jenvey.co.uk/home/twin-throttle-bodies/twin-bodies-dcoe-style-118mm-long/jenvey-dynamics/tb-body-40-50mm-pair-tbpxxi  Lotusbits sells a kit that includes the Jenvey throttle bodies and engine management system: http://www.lotusbits.com/upgrades_fuel_injection.htm 
 I am looking into using a throttle body, manifold, fuel rail and engine management system from a Lotus Esprit S4S on my 912 engine. The same engine management system was also used on the GM Quad 4 2.3 L engine and I plan to use a chip from a Quad 4 W41 engine as a starting point. The Quad 4 also used the same sensors as the S4S so parts are easy to get (other than the throttle body, fuel rail and manifold). Jerry Last edited on 11-02-2011 10:45 pm by t4brew |
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| Posted: 11-02-2011 11:13 pm |
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96th Post |
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subwoofer Member
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I am well aware of all of the above, but the visible fuel rails make them a no-go for me, I'm afraid. I wonder if the 907 will idle properly (as bad/well as on 45mm carbs) with outboard mounted injectors (racing style)? With a bit of fiddling it should be possible to mount the injectors to the air horns, and with fully sequential injection it should be possible to time the injection to when the air is actually moving. The fuel rail and injectors would be completely hidden inside the air box. I'll see what happens after I get the MS3 running in the Syncro Vanagon I just bought. -- Joachim Last edited on 11-02-2011 11:14 pm by subwoofer |
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| Posted: 11-02-2011 11:41 pm |
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97th Post |
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StevenD57 Member
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t4brew wrote: Jenvey has a set of DCOE throttle bodies:GAH! that is over $3000USD for that kit. I don't think I have any more than $700 - $800 in my setup. VASTLY cheaper and I bet works just as well. Three weekends ago I drove my Jensen-Healey with the EFI setup to Las Vegas Nevada and back from Phoenix Arizona. I went there for the national Lotus Owners Gathering. This is a 5 - 6 hour trip each way and the car performed flawlessly except for a tire vibration issue on the way back home. The engine however ran just fine and was quite lively with very reasonable temperatures as well.
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| Posted: 11-03-2011 12:09 am |
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98th Post |
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t4brew Member
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Hi Joachim, Sorry, I had not realized that you were looking for a throttle body without a visible fuel rail. Interesting idea to mount the injectors to the air horns. The S4S secondary fuel injectors are mounted in front of the throttle bodies but are only used at high rpms. Could you hide a standard throttle body with injectors inside the air box? Then have a set of DCOE's without throttle plates or venturis between the air box and manifold to keep the "stock" look. This would keep the injectors behind the throttle body which would keep the throttle plates dry but would increase the distance between the throttle plates and the intake valve. Jerry
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| Posted: 11-03-2011 01:13 am |
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99th Post |
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t4brew Member
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StevenD57 wrote: t4brew wrote:I had the same reaction to that system. So far I have acquired the ECM, chip, harness, throttle body, fuel rail, manifold, injectors, fuel pressure regulator, TPS, IAC valve,MAP sensor, coolant sensor, knock sensor, crank trigger wheel, trigger sensor and 02 sensor for $800. I also spent $20 for a chip definition file so I can modify the settings on the chip. I have already made changes for things like the fuel cutoff RPM, fuel return RPM, radiator fan temp on, radiator fan temp off, injector pulse constant for the S4S injectors and the speed sensor conversion. The GM ECM is very tunable. Tuning the VE and spark advance tables will take some time. The Quad 4 W41 spark advance table seems to be very close to the Lotus 912 advance curve. The VE tables may take some time to get right but should not be too difficult. I still have to purchase a high pressure fuel pump and the additional fuel line. Hopefully I can stay under $1000 for the complete system.Jenvey has a set of DCOE throttle bodies:GAH! that is over $3000USD for that kit. I don't think I have any more than $700 - $800 in my setup. VASTLY cheaper and I bet works just as well. Three weekends ago I drove my Jensen-Healey with the EFI setup to Las Vegas Nevada and back from Phoenix Arizona. I went there for the national Lotus Owners Gathering. This is a 5 - 6 hour trip each way and the car performed flawlessly except for a tire vibration issue on the way back home. The engine however ran just fine and was quite lively with very reasonable temperatures as well. Let me also add that now that I have a much better understanding of what it takes to put together an EFI system I understand why kits like the one that Lotusbits sell cost so much. I am sure Mike Taylor at Lotusbits has thousands of dollars of development, dyno and tuning time in that kit and since he will only sell a few of them he has to price them that high to make any money. Last edited on 11-03-2011 01:44 am by t4brew |
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| Posted: 11-03-2011 01:43 am |
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100th Post |
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StevenD57 Member
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t4brew wrote:I had the same reaction to that system. So far I have acquired the ECM, chip, harness, throttle body, fuel rail, manifold, injectors, fuel pressure regulator, TPS, IAC valve,MAP sensor, coolant sensor, knock sensor, crank trigger wheel, trigger sensor and 02 sensor for $800. I also spent $20 for a chip definition file so I can modify the settings on the chip. I have already made changes for things like the fuel cutoff RPM, fuel return RPM, radiator fan temp on, radiator fan temp off, injector pulse constant for the S4S injectors and the speed sensor conversion. The GM ECM is very tunable. Tuning the VE and spark advance tables will take some time. The Quad 4 W41 spark advance table seems to be very close to the Lotus 912 advance curve. The VE tables may take some time to get right but should not be too difficult. I still have to purchase a high pressure fuel pump and the additional fuel line. Hopefully I can stay under $1000 for the complete system.The TunerStudio software for the Megasquirt ECU has an autotune feature that I have found to be very helpful for dialing in everything except the WOT part of the VE tables.
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