| Moderated by: Greg Fletcher | ||
| Author | Post | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Ron Mau Member
|
Alright, I am at a loss. There doesn't appear to be enough clearance to remove the header now that it is diconnected. What am i missing? TIA, Ron Mau |
|||||||||
|
Lash Russell Member 
|
Hi Ross, I removed the header from the bottom of the car. If you had to jack up one side of the engine to get better access to the nuts then this will give you even more clearance. From my dusty memory, the header doesn't really just slide out but has to be twisted a bit and "finagled" but it wasn't too hard. As a recommendation for re-installation, pick up from the JHPS store some copper nuts to bolt it back on as the socket size is smaller (same nominal thread dia obviously) making it much easier to get access to the fasteners. Hope this helps. Lash |
|||||||||
|
colinw59 Member 
|
To get mine out, & back in, I had to remove the steering shaft & knuckle. A very tight fit and it's very hard to reach the nuts retaining the header to head. Also pay attention to the orientation of the knuckle, if you put it back in the wrong way it will fowl the engine. Good luck, Colin http://jhppg.com/gallery/74-Jensen-Healey-15851 |
|||||||||
|
JH12947 Member
|
An old thread, but a common issue it seems. If anyone has further tips on getting the 4-1 header out of its confines I'd love to have them. So far, I've:
Removed the steering shaft Removed the left engine mount so I can raise/lower the engine as I want disconnected the header from the rest of the exhaust There simply does not seem to be room to pull it from the bottom no matter how I wiggle it. Some people have said to raise the engine. This would seem to increase the space above the header. Can it be removed out the top? Next attempt may be to remove some of the suspension, or the entire subframe, but I'd rather not. Corey |
|||||||||
|
redracer Member
|
Yes, those 4 into one headers are a pain; even the original were one piece, but had a "Y" pipe at the end, so we would cut the flange between 1 and 2 as well as 3 and 4 so they would be much easier to install. I just finished rewelding and brazing many of the old headers since the two-into-one headers are no longer available. Keep at it and don't forget to use the 12mm hex head nuts(VW uses them) to get around those tight spaces. |
|||||||||
|
JH12947 Member
|
Yes, this header has the "y" piece and the flange has already been cut between 1 & 2 and 3 & 4. Still, there doesn't appear to be adequate room between the sump and the outriggers that bolt to the subframe for the unit to come through. I've been at it for hours raising and lowering the engine. I haven't tried to remove from above (if this is even an option), but I can see that I may have to support the engine from above and drop the subframe to get it out. Last edited on 08-11-2024 07:59 pm by JH12947 |
|||||||||
|
redracer Member
|
You said in your 1st post these were 4-into-1, but apparently they are not; the "Y" pipe must be removed and then the 1-4 and 2-3 should come out fairly easily. I have used a torch to heat up the clamping area where those atrocious "U" clamps were used and installed the stainless steel band clamps in their place to make R&R easier in the future. |
|||||||||
|
JH12947 Member
|
I've attached a screenshot from one of my YouTube videos that shows the header. As you can see, the individual runners from 1 & 4 gather at a Y pipe, as do the runners for 2 & 3 - all fully welded. The outputs from these 2 Y pipes then travel down to another Y pipe that is again fully welded. The single outlet from there runs into the front muffler. There is no removing of any Y pipes or separating the header into parts. Looking at the photos of the unit on the Martin Robey site it looks like the upper sections are supposed to be welded as they are. The lower Y is not, but this section is below the car so shouldn't be an issue unless the header is supposed to be removed from above. Attachment: Header.jpg (Downloaded 52 times) Last edited on 08-11-2024 07:59 pm by JH12947 |
|||||||||
|
redracer Member
|
That lower "Y" pipe was not supposed to be welded-- looks like a poor weld at best I would cut down the center of that lower "Y" pipe to separate the 2 halves, remove, then grind down the welds to save the headers. I have plenty of "Y" pipes to replace that part, but it SHOULD BE CLAMPED, NOT WELDED |
|||||||||
|
JH12947 Member
|
I was just getting out the reciprocating saw when I read your post. Amazing how easy it came out in 2 pieces! I'll need a Y piece so if you have one to sell let me know and I can send some funds. My postal code is V2A5P3 for shipping. Thanks |
|||||||||
|
redracer Member
|
Corey: the price for a "Y" pipe is $30, but I can not determine the shipping to Canada without a complete address. UPS starts at $16 whereas USPS starts at $33. One other person in BC uses a US address just over the BC line, to pick up his items, so maybe that would be easier/better? btw, using this forum for replies is cumbersome; my full profile has all my info in it so using that email would be preferable. bruce/aka "redracer" email: RedRacerbm@gmail.com |
|||||||||
|
vnavaret Member 
|
JH12947 wrote: I've attached a screenshot from one of my YouTube videos that shows the header. As you can see, the individual runners from 1 & 4 gather at a Y pipe, as do the runners for 2 & 3 - all fully welded. The outputs from these 2 Y pipes then travel down to another Y pipe that is again fully welded. The single outlet from there runs into the front muffler. As others have mentioned, the OEM configuration was not welded together so that the header could be removed in two pieces. The header design is called "Tri-Y" because the pipes are merged in a manner resembling the letter Y, and there are three such merges. While a four into one design is very popular, it makes little sense for street driven cars as the power gains are at high RPMs. The Tri-Y design moves the gains into the RPM mid range, where the power is much more usable on the street. The four into one design is more popular because that is what the NASCAR racers use and every racer wanna-be wants what the pros use. Silly I know, but that is the truth. Lotus did the right thing in designing that header for the JH. Vance Last edited on 08-15-2024 04:29 am by vnavaret |
|||||||||
|
noomg Member
|
Interesting conversation, it seems like it would be easier to build a race car than a road car. The race car only has to maintain a high RPM to go as fast as possible while being driven by someone who knows what they're doing. The road car on the other hand serves many masters. It has to perform well whole through the RPM range mainly low to medium but occasionally high RPM as well. It has to idle smoothly and not overheat in traffic. Plus the ride has to be comfortable and handle rough roads as well as smooth roads. In other words it has to meet a wide range of compromises that the race car does not. Plus the car has to be designed to be relatively easy to maintain and go long intervals between maintenance stops. And on top of all that it has to be designed to be easily driven by people who aren't very good drivers. So when you're struggling with something like removing the header keep in mind they didn't design it to piss you off a lot of other considerations went into the design. |
|||||||||
|
JH12947 Member
|
To close the loop on this somewhat, I did end up getting the header off in two pieces after cutting the Y off close to the original location. Easy to remove in two pieces. I'm now in the process of trying to weld up the cracks and pin holes. Fairly frustrating chasing the leaks around but I'll get it done. It would be nice if any of the parts suppliers had LHD headers in stock. |
|||||||||
|
noomg Member
|
JH12947, Welding cracks and pin holes doesn't seem to be an ideal solution as it sounds like your header may have reached the end of it's service life and cracks and pin holes might start to appear regularly. I assume you've tried the regular suppliers; Delta, Robey, etc.. The OEM header may be NLS but Delta lists an S&S header which is designed for easier installation. It's a four into one which as Vance pointed out is not ideal but as J/H owners I've always thought of us in the "beggars can't be choosers" category. |
|||||||||
|
JH12947 Member
|
noomg - Thanks - My response from Delta was that he has no exhaust systems at the moment and I'd have to source from the UK. Marten Robey doesn't list headers for LHD cars. JHPS is out of stock. My header is not too bad, but I'd replace it if I could find one. |
|||||||||
|
vnavaret Member
|
JH12947 wrote: It would be nice if any of the parts suppliers had LHD headers in stock. Any chance the RHD header can be tweaked to install on a LHD car? Heating and dimpling to get needed clearance is standard operating procedure with headers (that being one reason I eschew headers). I have installed several sets of headers over the years, and I have not once had them be a drop in operation. Hammering, heating, bending, grinding have been the norm in every case. Having an exhaust shop making a custom header for you is always an option, albeit an expensive one. Of late I have refused to install aftermarket headers despite that they are a (not so simple) bolt on power adder. Raising compression, porting, mild cams, etc have been much more satisfying in my experience. For street I prefer well designed cast iron manifolds. The OEM manifolds on my TR8 are well designed with sweeping turns, for example. That said, Lotus came up with a good design and I would think a used stock setup would be plenty good. They come up on eBay regularly, so I know they are available. If you are a "I want stainless" kind of guy, you can always get them ceramic coated. Vance Last edited on 08-16-2024 11:01 pm by vnavaret |
|||||||||
|
redracer Member
|
I just wrote a reply to Corey last week about headers: I probably have about 7 sets I welded and brazed a few months ago. Let me know if anyone wants a set; here's a copy of the reply i had written: Just got through a couple of months ago welding and brazing all the old headers I had taken off the cars I had(I had 26+) since they don't make the 2 piece ones anymore. The picture you sent of your header appears to be an original---the severe bend in #4 was always a "weak" point and usually had to be brazed after it cracked there. When I autocrossed, I had to do that a few times , as we were not allowed to put aftermarket ones on. Also, the "Y" pipes I have are aftermarket and of a better "flow" design than the original. good luck, bruce |
|||||||||